165. The Disappearance of Kyron Horman Part 3

Hi, I listened to all three episodes of the podcast, and I have some comments and corrections. I understand that “Boy Missing” was used as a source (as you say, there’s not much else out there), but unfortunately it has been the source of a lot of misinformation about the case.

* Terri’s changing story about how she last saw Kyron.

This is a problem, because the first story – that they went up different staircases and she saw him by the classroom, only to be informed that his classroom wasn’t visible from the top of the staircase – is in fact not correct. Kyron’s classroom (213) was at the end of a hallway, and all three stairs led up to the same hallway. There isn’t a single staircase from which Kyron’s staircase wasn’t visible. This information comes only from Desiree, who says she was the one who “discovered” it, and she is also the only source that Terri changed her story about the last sighting.

Here is a forum post that has a map of the two floors. As you can see, there’s no corner or anything else that would block Kyron’s classroom from view.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/kyron-horman-case-review-1-thread-2-le-press-conference-release-june-6-2010.112688/page-3#post-5552626

That Terri then claimed to have seen Kyron with a chaperone, and later a strange man, is also not true. In her leaked emails, she says someone had told her that Kyron was seen with a man, assumed to be a chaperone, but apparently there were no men on the chaperone list.

Quoting a KATU article:

“They are blaming me in the blogs. I just want to scream,” she wrote in one e-mail to a KATU News source the day after her stepson, Kyron Horman, was reported to be vanished from Skyline School during a science fair. Investigators say Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron.

“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic – had to been 300 people running around – no coordination …”

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html

***

* Timestamps

So, it is mentioned that Terri said she went to the gym at 11:39, while the gym said it was 12:20. This is also from “Boy Missing” and is fairly obviously wrong. For one, one of these times is exact to the minute. You would expect it to be the gym, with the records, no? But instead “BM” claims it was Terri. However, this contradicts all other reporting on the case, where the 11:39 time was always said to have been the time given by the gym. Also, we know what time Terri claimed, since it was also in a leaked email, and it wasn’t 11:39:

“I have a receipt showing I was checking out at Fred Meyer 7 miles away at 9:12am. I went to another FM looking for meds for Kitty they didn’t have at the first FM. Then I was trying to get Kitty to sleep in the truck for a few minutes, but no go, so off to the gym at 11:20. Out at 12:20. Home at 12:45. Kaine home at 2. Bus at 3:30. That was my day – they keep asking me. Now on my 5th interview with them …” – KATU

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html

Terri says she was at the gym between 11:20 and 12:20. The gym says 11:39 and 12:42. It’s not much of a discrepancy. That Terri arrived at 12:20 (and that she didn’t work out or that she had a gash on her leg) is only sourced to “Boy Missing”. “Boy Missing” is also the source to the claim that Terri left the second Fred Meyer at 9:40 (confirmed by CCTV). Yet those same law enforcement officers who watched the CCTV to confirm sent out posters asking people if they’d seen the car at the second Fred Meyer lot at 10:00. Why do that if they knew the truck had left 20 minutes earlier? All early reporting say Terri left the second Fred Meyer ca 10:00.

Also, probably just a mistake, but Terri was actually confirmed in the dry-cleaners. “BM” tells this tale about the craft store, Michaels, so that may be what you were thinking of, but again, only sourced to “BM”.

* The fair

One thing you’ve missed is the reason Kyron went to his classroom at 8:45. The children were to be divided into groups (with a chaperone) and tour the fair before first class at 10:00. So Kyron was supposed to be in his classroom at the time. Of course, we don’t know if he made it. One witness, a friend, passed him in the hallway alone, and Kyron told him he was going to see a specific exhibit (unknown where). This can pretty much only have happened after Terri had left, so it is usually disregarded as unreliable. Another boy, a friend of Kyron’s brother, saw Kyron in the gym “with friends” and no Terri in sight (there’s no confirmed sighting of Terri in the gym, where the older kids had their setups). These were all reported early on, with the former boy even going on TV.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/what-the-school-staff-and-students-say-about-the-morning-kyron-went-missing.110237/page-4#post-5448157
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Hormans-desk-mate-says-substitute-noticed-Horman/TVY3YTREG0SyCP3tb3MkZg.cspx
https://web.archive.org/web/20100717011316/http://www.katu.com/news/local/98434609.html

Terri’s explanation for taking the truck is that she expected the tours to be followed by a presentation by the children, after which she could take the project home. However they had apparently held the presentations the day before and it was either changed or misinterpreted or misstated. So she left early since she wouldn’t get to hear Kyron’s presentation anyway. Make of that what you will.

You also say Kyron was seen leaving with Terri, another thing that has only ever been sourced to Desiree. A friend and his grandmother supposedly saw them in the parking lot, but the friend was already inside at the time given (8:50), since he was one of the children you mention in the classroom when Terri took the picture. Now, I don’t believe this happened – I suspect Desiree misunderstood what the sheriff told her – but you mention the south entrance. If you look at the map, the south entrance is actually the main entrance, while the east entrance is by the parking lot. Terri says she left through the south entrance, it’s unclear where the witnesses place them, but it has to be the south or the east if they are in the parking lot. The out-of-the-way entrance is the west one, down the stairs from Kyron’s classroom, which leads to an access road that goes out to Skyline Boulevard. It is blocked by a chain, and that morning until 9 a groundskeeper was mowing the soccer field. He saw children going out alone from the west entrance to look at plant beds. This is the likeliest place Kyron exited the school, but again, he would not have been seen from the parking lot if that were the case.

***

I don’t think Terri took Kyron. First of all, when would she have killed him? To be at Fred Meyers at 9 after leaving the school at 8:45, she would have to drive straight there, no detours. When and where along that road (which is never in the wilds and gets less and less so the further you go) would she have the time and opportunity to kill him? And if she didn’t, she had him alive in the truck at two public parking lots in full view of everyone, for the better part of an hour (and the description in “BM” as Terri’s parkings at Fred Meyers being very far from the entrance is exaggerated).

https://www.google.se/maps/dir/Skyline+School+IB+K-8,+Northwest+Skyline+Boulevard,+Portland,+Oregon,+USA/Fred+Meyer,+Northeast+Imbrie+Drive,+Hillsboro,+Oregon,+USA/@45.5791786,-122.9146889,10354m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x549506e32655a947:0xc20defba8423150e!2m2!1d-122.8564073!2d45.6075752!1m5!1m1!1s0x5495059049f476ad:0x11e6543dc6b5acba!2m2!1d-122.9034694!2d45.5514361
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/kyron-horman-discussion-thread-2020-2022-2.638108/#post-17785948

I’m pretty certain DeDe is a red herring. Their “absences” overlap by 9 minutes (11:30-11:39), and the truth is no one actually saw her leave the premises. They just couldn’t find her for lunch (and you can see on Google Maps that it is a large property). Like you said, her car was still there. Would Terri have the time to pick her up at 11:30 and then arrive at the gym 11:39? And why would she even do that?

Terri always said she drove up to highway 30 when she drove to soothe her baby (and I don’t see why it’s weird that Terri would want to calm her child before placing her in the gym daycare – like you say, she was always going there, and it’s considerate to at least wait until the child is calm), and of course the cell tower that pinged her is not on Sauvie Island, but right by highway 30, so there was never a mystery there.

A predator could have gotten Kyron out of the western entrance after 9, perhaps by asking Kyron to help him carry something from his car/truck, which may have been on the service road.

Sorry for the onslaught of words, and I wish you all happy holidays.

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2 thoughts on “165. The Disappearance of Kyron Horman Part 3”

mccjdd says:

December 21, 2022 at 3:09 am

Hey Guys! Ever consider that Terri might have sold or just given Kyron to bad people who wanted to use or abuse him? JulieD

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FergusMcDuck says:

December 23, 2022 at 4:43 am

Hi, I listened to all three episodes of the podcast, and I have some comments and corrections. I understand that “Boy Missing” was used as a source (as you say, there’s not much else out there), but unfortunately it has been the source of a lot of misinformation about the case.

* Terri’s changing story about how she last saw Kyron.

This is a problem, because the first story – that they went up different staircases and she saw him by the classroom, only to be informed that his classroom wasn’t visible from the top of the staircase – is in fact not correct. Kyron’s classroom (213) was at the end of a hallway, and all three stairs led up to the same hallway. There isn’t a single staircase from which Kyron’s staircase wasn’t visible. This information comes only from Desiree, who says she was the one who “discovered” it, and she is also the only source that Terri changed her story about the last sighting.

Here is a forum post that has a map of the two floors. As you can see, there’s no corner or anything else that would block Kyron’s classroom from view.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/kyron-horman-case-review-1-thread-2-le-press-conference-release-june-6-2010.112688/page-3#post-5552626

That Terri then claimed to have seen Kyron with a chaperone, and later a strange man, is also not true. In her leaked emails, she says someone had told her that Kyron was seen with a man, assumed to be a chaperone, but apparently there were no men on the chaperone list.

Quoting a KATU article:

“They are blaming me in the blogs. I just want to scream,” she wrote in one e-mail to a KATU News source the day after her stepson, Kyron Horman, was reported to be vanished from Skyline School during a science fair. Investigators say Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron.

“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic – had to been 300 people running around – no coordination …”

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html

***

* Timestamps

So, it is mentioned that Terri said she went to the gym at 11:39, while the gym said it was 12:20. This is also from “Boy Missing” and is fairly obviously wrong. For one, one of these times is exact to the minute. You would expect it to be the gym, with the records, no? But instead “BM” claims it was Terri. However, this contradicts all other reporting on the case, where the 11:39 time was always said to have been the time given by the gym. Also, we know what time Terri claimed, since it was also in a leaked email, and it wasn’t 11:39:

“I have a receipt showing I was checking out at Fred Meyer 7 miles away at 9:12am. I went to another FM looking for meds for Kitty they didn’t have at the first FM. Then I was trying to get Kitty to sleep in the truck for a few minutes, but no go, so off to the gym at 11:20. Out at 12:20. Home at 12:45. Kaine home at 2. Bus at 3:30. That was my day – they keep asking me. Now on my 5th interview with them …” – KATU

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html

Terri says she was at the gym between 11:20 and 12:20. The gym says 11:39 and 12:42. It’s not much of a discrepancy. That Terri arrived at 12:20 (and that she didn’t work out or that she had a gash on her leg) is only sourced to “Boy Missing”. “Boy Missing” is also the source to the claim that Terri left the second Fred Meyer at 9:40 (confirmed by CCTV). Yet those same law enforcement officers who watched the CCTV to confirm sent out posters asking people if they’d seen the car at the second Fred Meyer lot at 10:00. Why do that if they knew the truck had left 20 minutes earlier? All early reporting say Terri left the second Fred Meyer ca 10:00.

Also, probably just a mistake, but Terri was actually confirmed in the dry-cleaners. “BM” tells this tale about the craft store, Michaels, so that may be what you were thinking of, but again, only sourced to “BM”.

* The fair

One thing you’ve missed is the reason Kyron went to his classroom at 8:45. The children were to be divided into groups (with a chaperone) and tour the fair before first class at 10:00. So Kyron was supposed to be in his classroom at the time. Of course, we don’t know if he made it. One witness, a friend, passed him in the hallway alone, and Kyron told him he was going to see a specific exhibit (unknown where). This can pretty much only have happened after Terri had left, so it is usually disregarded as unreliable. Another boy, a friend of Kyron’s brother, saw Kyron in the gym “with friends” and no Terri in sight (there’s no confirmed sighting of Terri in the gym, where the older kids had their setups). These were all reported early on, with the former boy even going on TV.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/what-the-school-staff-and-students-say-about-the-morning-kyron-went-missing.110237/page-4#post-5448157
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Hormans-desk-mate-says-substitute-noticed-Horman/TVY3YTREG0SyCP3tb3MkZg.cspx
https://web.archive.org/web/20100717011316/http://www.katu.com/news/local/98434609.html

Terri’s explanation for taking the truck is that she expected the tours to be followed by a presentation by the children, after which she could take the project home. However they had apparently held the presentations the day before and it was either changed or misinterpreted or misstated. So she left early since she wouldn’t get to hear Kyron’s presentation anyway. Make of that what you will.

You also say Kyron was seen leaving with Terri, another thing that has only ever been sourced to Desiree. A friend and his grandmother supposedly saw them in the parking lot, but the friend was already inside at the time given (8:50), since he was one of the children you mention in the classroom when Terri took the picture. Now, I don’t believe this happened – I suspect Desiree misunderstood what the sheriff told her – but you mention the south entrance. If you look at the map, the south entrance is actually the main entrance, while the east entrance is by the parking lot. Terri says she left through the south entrance, it’s unclear where the witnesses place them, but it has to be the south or the east if they are in the parking lot. The out-of-the-way entrance is the west one, down the stairs from Kyron’s classroom, which leads to an access road that goes out to Skyline Boulevard. It is blocked by a chain, and that morning until 9 a groundskeeper was mowing the soccer field. He saw children going out alone from the west entrance to look at plant beds. This is the likeliest place Kyron exited the school, but again, he would not have been seen from the parking lot if that were the case.

***

I don’t think Terri took Kyron. First of all, when would she have killed him? To be at Fred Meyers at 9 after leaving the school at 8:45, she would have to drive straight there, no detours. When and where along that road (which is never in the wilds and gets less and less so the further you go) would she have the time and opportunity to kill him? And if she didn’t, she had him alive in the truck at two public parking lots in full view of everyone, for the better part of an hour (and the description in “BM” as Terri’s parkings at Fred Meyers being very far from the entrance is exaggerated).

https://www.google.se/maps/dir/Skyline+School+IB+K-8,+Northwest+Skyline+Boulevard,+Portland,+Oregon,+USA/Fred+Meyer,+Northeast+Imbrie+Drive,+Hillsboro,+Oregon,+USA/@45.5791786,-122.9146889,10354m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x549506e32655a947:0xc20defba8423150e!2m2!1d-122.8564073!2d45.6075752!1m5!1m1!1s0x5495059049f476ad:0x11e6543dc6b5acba!2m2!1d-122.9034694!2d45.5514361
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/kyron-horman-discussion-thread-2020-2022-2.638108/#post-17785948

I’m pretty certain DeDe is a red herring. Their “absences” overlap by 9 minutes (11:30-11:39), and the truth is no one actually saw her leave the premises. They just couldn’t find her for lunch (and you can see on Google Maps that it is a large property). Like you said, her car was still there. Would Terri have the time to pick her up at 11:30 and then arrive at the gym 11:39? And why would she even do that?

Terri always said she drove up to highway 30 when she drove to soothe her baby (and I don’t see why it’s weird that Terri would want to calm her child before placing her in the gym daycare – like you say, she was always going there, and it’s considerate to at least wait until the child is calm), and of course the cell tower that pinged her is not on Sauvie Island, but right by highway 30, so there was never a mystery there.

A predator could have gotten Kyron out of the western entrance after 9, perhaps by asking Kyron to help him carry something from his car/truck, which may have been on the service road.

Sorry for the onslaught of words, and I wish you all happy holidays.

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165. The Disappearance of Kyron Horman Part 3

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